Hunter King ’08 said he spotted Wes on the local Fox News tonight about the new scholarships for Veterans. There’s also an article with quotes from Eugene Wong ’09, president of Wesleyan Republicans, and Izaak Orlansky ’08.
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who are you to say what is patriotic and what is not? many of the soldiers in iraq go in whole heartedly believing they are doing what is best for their country. some come out disillusioned, and the media, especially the left-wing media, likes to play up those stories, but plenty come back and serve again and again. just because you don’t agree with the war does not mean they shouldn’t be rewarded for at least having the balls to sign up to protect the nation – they didn’t choose to specifically go to iraq and kill civilians. you may be complaining about how we choose to use our armed forces, but be grateful we have such a strong military in the first place, where we have freedoms to voice our dissent. giving vets scholarships does not have any effect on the war or its portrayal – those against it will still be against it.. this is just giving the soldiers a break, especially since many of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds anyway.
who are you to say what is patriotic and what is not? many of the soldiers in iraq go in whole heartedly believing they are doing what is best for their country. some come out disillusioned, and the media, especially the left-wing media, likes to play up those stories, but plenty come back and serve again and again. just because you don’t agree with the war does not mean they shouldn’t be rewarded for at least having the balls to sign up to protect the nation – they didn’t choose to specifically go to iraq and kill civilians. you may be complaining about how we choose to use our armed forces, but be grateful we have such a strong military in the first place, where we have freedoms to voice our dissent. giving vets scholarships does not have any effect on the war or its portrayal – those against it will still be against it.. this is just giving the soldiers a break, especially since many of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds anyway.
I think they should actually go a step further and start a ROTC branch here at Wes. Imagine what the military would be like if we had more officers with a Wes education!? Talk about creative chaos! Luv it!
I think they should actually go a step further and start a ROTC branch here at Wes. Imagine what the military would be like if we had more officers with a Wes education!? Talk about creative chaos! Luv it!
I think they should actually go a step further and start a ROTC branch here at Wes. Imagine what the military would be like if we had more officers with a Wes education!? Talk about creative chaos! Luv it!
12:46, I have to disagree with your characterization of no one joining the military to help pay for a college degree. Perhaps the clearest argument against this would be the military academies, which offer a 4-year degree in exchange for 5 years of active duty service. Moreover, the services use their educational programs as part of recruitment campaigns.Getting an education might not be worth it in our eyes, but it certainly is worth it to some people. As to the larger question of the appropriateness of providing incentives for people to join the military, it’s worth noting that a military is simply a natural and necessary extension of the state. No stable and modern state can exist today without some assurance of its own security. Such assurances always come from either the protection of one’s army ot that of an ally. So militaries are necessary, even if they are unsavory.So the question becomes, who do we want serving in the military? It seems reasonable to me to prefer learned and intellectually curious people for military service than those that want to be in the military for other means. Not only does this create a better officer corps, but I think this will also give us a stronger, more ethical military. Scholarships like the one at Wes are one of the best ways of ensuring this kind of force. Ultimately, such scholarships serve a good purpose, for the military, incentivizing the right kind of people to join up.
12:46, I have to disagree with your characterization of no one joining the military to help pay for a college degree. Perhaps the clearest argument against this would be the military academies, which offer a 4-year degree in exchange for 5 years of active duty service. Moreover, the services use their educational programs as part of recruitment campaigns.Getting an education might not be worth it in our eyes, but it certainly is worth it to some people. As to the larger question of the appropriateness of providing incentives for people to join the military, it’s worth noting that a military is simply a natural and necessary extension of the state. No stable and modern state can exist today without some assurance of its own security. Such assurances always come from either the protection of one’s army ot that of an ally. So militaries are necessary, even if they are unsavory.So the question becomes, who do we want serving in the military? It seems reasonable to me to prefer learned and intellectually curious people for military service than those that want to be in the military for other means. Not only does this create a better officer corps, but I think this will also give us a stronger, more ethical military. Scholarships like the one at Wes are one of the best ways of ensuring this kind of force. Ultimately, such scholarships serve a good purpose, for the military, incentivizing the right kind of people to join up.
12:46, I have to disagree with your characterization of no one joining the military to help pay for a college degree. Perhaps the clearest argument against this would be the military academies, which offer a 4-year degree in exchange for 5 years of active duty service. Moreover, the services use their educational programs as part of recruitment campaigns.
Getting an education might not be worth it in our eyes, but it certainly is worth it to some people.
As to the larger question of the appropriateness of providing incentives for people to join the military, it’s worth noting that a military is simply a natural and necessary extension of the state. No stable and modern state can exist today without some assurance of its own security. Such assurances always come from either the protection of one’s army ot that of an ally. So militaries are necessary, even if they are unsavory.
So the question becomes, who do we want serving in the military? It seems reasonable to me to prefer learned and intellectually curious people for military service than those that want to be in the military for other means. Not only does this create a better officer corps, but I think this will also give us a stronger, more ethical military. Scholarships like the one at Wes are one of the best ways of ensuring this kind of force. Ultimately, such scholarships serve a good purpose, for the military, incentivizing the right kind of people to join up.
Well here’s a nice alternative: poor youth signs up for military (maybe because they support their country. Who are you to say they can’t think that?), comes back with no education benefits, ends up a homeless veteran.Really simplified but it’s not like it hasn’t happened plenty
Well here’s a nice alternative: poor youth signs up for military (maybe because they support their country. Who are you to say they can’t think that?), comes back with no education benefits, ends up a homeless veteran.Really simplified but it’s not like it hasn’t happened plenty
Well here’s a nice alternative: poor youth signs up for military (maybe because they support their country. Who are you to say they can’t think that?), comes back with no education benefits, ends up a homeless veteran.
Really simplified but it’s not like it hasn’t happened plenty
anon@12:15When you say “Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now.”It sounds an awful lot like the white folks I grew up around who say “If only I my skin was [whatever color] then I wouldn’t have to pay for college.”Just saying.The reason that there are incentives for members of any group (including veterans) who apply to SLACs is because members of that group are underrepresented in the upper echelons of education. I don’t purport to know anything about you, but if military service wasn’t your only ticket out of town then I think you should consider yourself lucky.
anon@12:15When you say “Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now.”It sounds an awful lot like the white folks I grew up around who say “If only I my skin was [whatever color] then I wouldn’t have to pay for college.”Just saying.The reason that there are incentives for members of any group (including veterans) who apply to SLACs is because members of that group are underrepresented in the upper echelons of education. I don’t purport to know anything about you, but if military service wasn’t your only ticket out of town then I think you should consider yourself lucky.
anon@12:15
When you say “Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now.”
It sounds an awful lot like the white folks I grew up around who say “If only I my skin was [whatever color] then I wouldn’t have to pay for college.”
Just saying.
The reason that there are incentives for members of any group (including veterans) who apply to SLACs is because members of that group are underrepresented in the upper echelons of education.
I don’t purport to know anything about you, but if military service wasn’t your only ticket out of town then I think you should consider yourself lucky.
Are you an idiot?For many youths stuck in impoverished situations, joining the armed forces represents one of the best ways of escaping the vicious circle of poverty. Some die, some get sucked in again, and few escape, even through the military. NO ONE who joins the military looks at it as “the easy way to a college education.”
Are you an idiot?For many youths stuck in impoverished situations, joining the armed forces represents one of the best ways of escaping the vicious circle of poverty. Some die, some get sucked in again, and few escape, even through the military. NO ONE who joins the military looks at it as “the easy way to a college education.”
Are you an idiot?
For many youths stuck in impoverished situations, joining the armed forces represents one of the best ways of escaping the vicious circle of poverty. Some die, some get sucked in again, and few escape, even through the military. NO ONE who joins the military looks at it as “the easy way to a college education.”
anonymous 12:15 pm:I completely whole-heartedly agree. That’s all.
anonymous 12:15 pm:I completely whole-heartedly agree. That’s all.
anonymous 12:15 pm:
I completely whole-heartedly agree. That’s all.
ok, so i know this is going to piss some people off but I don’t care. I am actually mad about this scholarship. I do not think that we should ever offer more educational benefits for people who serve in the armed forces, for fear that it will become a reason to enlist in the first place. Too many young people sign up just to be able to go to college. And this just adds to that incentive, no? Also just because I disagree with the war and would never serve in the army, does that make me less deserving of a scholarship? Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now. Why is it that a disproportionate number of soldiers come from the bottom half of the social-economic class in the US, measures like these I am sure contribute to that phenomena. There is nothing patriotic about selling yourself and potentially dying in an unjust war. Sure they are sent to Iraq, but how can they live with themselves and come back and deal with the reality of what this war is…a huge fucked up mess.s. (I guess that is why we must keep this whole myth about how killing people that the government tells you to kills is patriotic.) We should not be there. Granted we should not give returning soldiers a hard time or anything, but I am sick of glorifying war, of glorifying serving the country by blindly following orders and not being able to challenge them, it is dangerous rhetoric. How is going off to die any more patriotic than being a public school teacher or public servant or a diplomat? I don’t think we should celebrate war culture. Sure we should take care of veterans when they get back and provide them the best health care and psychological services possible, but creating these kinds of incentives is perverse. I am ashamed that Wesleyan is doing this. I suppose rich alumni can give money to support what ever cause they wish, but why not reward those having volunteered time pursuing humanitarian goals or peace. The American war culture is sickening, combine that with one of the most messed up, unaffordable education systems in the world and look at what the results are: exclusive, upper-middle class, liberal arts college, that are unaffordable for the average American offering scholarships on the basis of military service. Since when did knowing how to kill Iraqi’s become a desirable attribute in a college applicant?
ok, so i know this is going to piss some people off but I don’t care. I am actually mad about this scholarship. I do not think that we should ever offer more educational benefits for people who serve in the armed forces, for fear that it will become a reason to enlist in the first place. Too many young people sign up just to be able to go to college. And this just adds to that incentive, no? Also just because I disagree with the war and would never serve in the army, does that make me less deserving of a scholarship? Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now. Why is it that a disproportionate number of soldiers come from the bottom half of the social-economic class in the US, measures like these I am sure contribute to that phenomena. There is nothing patriotic about selling yourself and potentially dying in an unjust war. Sure they are sent to Iraq, but how can they live with themselves and come back and deal with the reality of what this war is…a huge fucked up mess.s. (I guess that is why we must keep this whole myth about how killing people that the government tells you to kills is patriotic.) We should not be there. Granted we should not give returning soldiers a hard time or anything, but I am sick of glorifying war, of glorifying serving the country by blindly following orders and not being able to challenge them, it is dangerous rhetoric. How is going off to die any more patriotic than being a public school teacher or public servant or a diplomat? I don’t think we should celebrate war culture. Sure we should take care of veterans when they get back and provide them the best health care and psychological services possible, but creating these kinds of incentives is perverse. I am ashamed that Wesleyan is doing this. I suppose rich alumni can give money to support what ever cause they wish, but why not reward those having volunteered time pursuing humanitarian goals or peace. The American war culture is sickening, combine that with one of the most messed up, unaffordable education systems in the world and look at what the results are: exclusive, upper-middle class, liberal arts college, that are unaffordable for the average American offering scholarships on the basis of military service. Since when did knowing how to kill Iraqi’s become a desirable attribute in a college applicant?
ok, so i know this is going to piss some people off but I don’t care. I am actually mad about this scholarship. I do not think that we should ever offer more educational benefits for people who serve in the armed forces, for fear that it will become a reason to enlist in the first place. Too many young people sign up just to be able to go to college. And this just adds to that incentive, no? Also just because I disagree with the war and would never serve in the army, does that make me less deserving of a scholarship? Maybe I should just go sign up…then perhaps I would not be in thousands and thousands of dollars of debt as I am now. Why is it that a disproportionate number of soldiers come from the bottom half of the social-economic class in the US, measures like these I am sure contribute to that phenomena. There is nothing patriotic about selling yourself and potentially dying in an unjust war. Sure they are sent to Iraq, but how can they live with themselves and come back and deal with the reality of what this war is…a huge fucked up mess.s. (I guess that is why we must keep this whole myth about how killing people that the government tells you to kills is patriotic.) We should not be there. Granted we should not give returning soldiers a hard time or anything, but I am sick of glorifying war, of glorifying serving the country by blindly following orders and not being able to challenge them, it is dangerous rhetoric. How is going off to die any more patriotic than being a public school teacher or public servant or a diplomat? I don’t think we should celebrate war culture. Sure we should take care of veterans when they get back and provide them the best health care and psychological services possible, but creating these kinds of incentives is perverse. I am ashamed that Wesleyan is doing this. I suppose rich alumni can give money to support what ever cause they wish, but why not reward those having volunteered time pursuing humanitarian goals or peace. The American war culture is sickening, combine that with one of the most messed up, unaffordable education systems in the world and look at what the results are: exclusive, upper-middle class, liberal arts college, that are unaffordable for the average American offering scholarships on the basis of military service. Since when did knowing how to kill Iraqi’s become a desirable attribute in a college applicant?
They also chatted it up on the CBS Morning Show on Friday (I had to get up for a 9 o’clock class and had it on).
They also chatted it up on the CBS Morning Show on Friday (I had to get up for a 9 o’clock class and had it on).
They also chatted it up on the CBS Morning Show on Friday (I had to get up for a 9 o’clock class and had it on).
Actually it was big NATIONAL news last week – front page USA Today on Thus:http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-11-14-gi-bill_N.htm
Actually it was big NATIONAL news last week – front page USA Today on Thus:http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-11-14-gi-bill_N.htm
Actually it was big NATIONAL news last week – front page USA Today on Thus:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-11-14-gi-bill_N.htm
anon 7:35- the livelihoods of post-disharge american soldiers in iraq is just as related as the 400,000 dead iraqis. remember that the soldiers are told what to do… they didnt choose to go there. show some respect for people who willingly put their lives on the line for their country (no matter how misplaced that country’s directives are)
anon 7:35- the livelihoods of post-disharge american soldiers in iraq is just as related as the 400,000 dead iraqis. remember that the soldiers are told what to do… they didnt choose to go there. show some respect for people who willingly put their lives on the line for their country (no matter how misplaced that country’s directives are)
anon 7:35-
the livelihoods of post-disharge american soldiers in iraq is just as related as the 400,000 dead iraqis. remember that the soldiers are told what to do… they didnt choose to go there. show some respect for people who willingly put their lives on the line for their country (no matter how misplaced that country’s directives are)
“A lot of the students here don’t even know people who have served,” said Eugene Wong, a junior from Needham, Mass., and president of the Wesleyan chapter of College Republicans. “All they know is George Bush, the war and oil. … They don’t see the human aspect of the war because they are clouded by the rhetoric.”is this an implication that the livelihoods of iraq war soldiers post-discharge is somehow more related to “the human aspect of the war” than say hmm… 400,000 dead?
“A lot of the students here don’t even know people who have served,” said Eugene Wong, a junior from Needham, Mass., and president of the Wesleyan chapter of College Republicans. “All they know is George Bush, the war and oil. … They don’t see the human aspect of the war because they are clouded by the rhetoric.”is this an implication that the livelihoods of iraq war soldiers post-discharge is somehow more related to “the human aspect of the war” than say hmm… 400,000 dead?
“A lot of the students here don’t even know people who have served,” said Eugene Wong, a junior from Needham, Mass., and president of the Wesleyan chapter of College Republicans. “All they know is George Bush, the war and oil. … They don’t see the human aspect of the war because they are clouded by the rhetoric.”
is this an implication that the livelihoods of iraq war soldiers post-discharge is somehow more related to “the human aspect of the war” than say hmm… 400,000 dead?
The Veteran scholarships have netted Wesleyan a lot of local press, actually.It was also in Sunday’s Hartford Courant (the same article as on the Fox 61 website) as well as on another local news station WTNH last night.
The Veteran scholarships have netted Wesleyan a lot of local press, actually.It was also in Sunday’s Hartford Courant (the same article as on the Fox 61 website) as well as on another local news station WTNH last night.
The Veteran scholarships have netted Wesleyan a lot of local press, actually.
It was also in Sunday’s Hartford Courant (the same article as on the Fox 61 website) as well as on another local news station WTNH last night.
Yeah, you should have (looked closer). Gosh.
Yeah, you should have (looked closer). Gosh.
Yeah, you should have (looked closer). Gosh.
As for the edit:I misread what Orlansky had meant. I should have looked closer. My apologies.
As for the edit:I misread what Orlansky had meant. I should have looked closer. My apologies.
As for the edit:
I misread what Orlansky had meant. I should have looked closer. My apologies.
I don’t see how you’re last comment makes any sense, Lauraalyse. You can’t disagree with what Orlansky said while agreeing that the scholarships are a good thing. If the returning soldiers have been given that money for a reason (aside from a purely arbitrary decision), then Orlansky must have come pretty close to hitting it on the head. I’m no republican. I’m a person who dislikes what they stand for enough to not tolerate reflex-based arguments against them. ~MP
I don’t see how you’re last comment makes any sense, Lauraalyse. You can’t disagree with what Orlansky said while agreeing that the scholarships are a good thing. If the returning soldiers have been given that money for a reason (aside from a purely arbitrary decision), then Orlansky must have come pretty close to hitting it on the head. I’m no republican. I’m a person who dislikes what they stand for enough to not tolerate reflex-based arguments against them. ~MP
I don’t see how you’re last comment makes any sense, Lauraalyse. You can’t disagree with what Orlansky said while agreeing that the scholarships are a good thing. If the returning soldiers have been given that money for a reason (aside from a purely arbitrary decision), then Orlansky must have come pretty close to hitting it on the head. I’m no republican. I’m a person who dislikes what they stand for enough to not tolerate reflex-based arguments against them.
~MP
Quit your hating, Lauraalyse. Who the hell are you, either way? No reason to be so testy about this stuff!
Quit your hating, Lauraalyse. Who the hell are you, either way? No reason to be so testy about this stuff!
Quit your hating, Lauraalyse. Who the hell are you, either way? No reason to be so testy about this stuff!