Please join us for a vigil that commemorates and reflects upon the innocent lives lost and disrupted in the recent conflict in Gaza. We plan to join in solidarity with the hope of peace.
This event is hosted by AMES (Arab and Middle Eastern Students), ADAPT (Awareness, Dialogue, and Action about Palestine/Israel Today), the IJL (Interfaith Justice League), the MSA (Muslim Student Association), and the Havurah (Jewish student association).
What: Vigil for Gaza
When: Wednesday, Jan 28th from 9pm – 9:30 pm
Where: Smith Reading Room (usually the quiet room inside Olin)
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Holy shit, sorry that post was so gigantic!!
Holy shit, sorry that post was so gigantic!!
Israel has never been exterminating Palestinians — it is a democratic nation in which people of all religions and ethnicities have *full civil rights*. Arabs can vote, even the women who might not have that right in an Arab nation; speak Arabic (which is an official language, just like Hebrew); and there are even 8 Arabs in the Knesset.Many Arab nations, on the other hand, do persecute their Jews.I restate my point that Hamas' charter calls for the ultimate destruction of Israel (they have openly stated that they are not interested in coexisting) and extermination of Israelis. I think that this fact disputes all arguments, really.The rise of an Islamic power does not have to be equated with wiping Israel out, but in this case, it does. You're right, more Palestinians than Israelis have died. However, if Hamas had its way, ALL Israelis would die — that's one of their founding goals. By contrast, if Israel stopped being bombed, it would stop killing Palestinians. So I think the ball is really in Hamas' court (and in the court of the individuals who chose to elect Hamas).Peace *is* possible, but as I have said, Hamas is not interested in coexisting, so peace will come with Hamas changes its ways.Israel's killing of Palestinians is disproportionate only in numbers — Israel wants to exist peacefully, Hamas wants to take over the Middle-East and destroy Israel. If a group was founded to destroy America, there's no doubt America would bomb them until they changed their minds. Why should we hold Israel to any other standard?I'll read the text you suggested in the spirit of being open-minded for open-mindedness' sake, but in return, I'd like to ask you to read a book called "Myths and Facts". There's also an online version if you Google "Myths and Facts". While I support people's rights to voice opinions, I do not believe that both sides should be considered equally, just as I do not believe that racist views should be considered equally (to refer back to my first post). When one group wants to wipe out a people on the basis of nationality/religion, that *is* racism, and is not ok. Still, discussion is good, as you said. I'm glad we can discuss this civilly here :)Hamas' charter's call for the destruction of Israel is a fact recognized by even people who do not support Israel (I know, because I've argued with them about it, haha). Here are some references, since you asked:http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/international/middleeast/27mideast.html?ex=1298696400&en=25164615c0b5f11c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss ("The Hamas charter calls for Israel to be destroyed and replaced by an Islamic state")http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b.htm (The charter itself, which in the opening paragraph says "Israel will rise and remain erect until Islam eliminates it", and on another page, "Peace initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions … are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement")http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3111238,00.html ("[Coexistence] can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in theend Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth")
Israel has never been exterminating Palestinians — it is a democratic nation in which people of all religions and ethnicities have *full civil rights*. Arabs can vote, even the women who might not have that right in an Arab nation; speak Arabic (which is an official language, just like Hebrew); and there are even 8 Arabs in the Knesset.
Many Arab nations, on the other hand, do persecute their Jews.
I restate my point that Hamas' charter calls for the ultimate destruction of Israel (they have openly stated that they are not interested in coexisting) and extermination of Israelis. I think that this fact disputes all arguments, really.
The rise of an Islamic power does not have to be equated with wiping Israel out, but in this case, it does.
You're right, more Palestinians than Israelis have died. However, if Hamas had its way, ALL Israelis would die — that's one of their founding goals. By contrast, if Israel stopped being bombed, it would stop killing Palestinians. So I think the ball is really in Hamas' court (and in the court of the individuals who chose to elect Hamas).
Peace *is* possible, but as I have said, Hamas is not interested in coexisting, so peace will come with Hamas changes its ways.
Israel's killing of Palestinians is disproportionate only in numbers — Israel wants to exist peacefully, Hamas wants to take over the Middle-East and destroy Israel. If a group was founded to destroy America, there's no doubt America would bomb them until they changed their minds. Why should we hold Israel to any other standard?
I'll read the text you suggested in the spirit of being open-minded for open-mindedness' sake, but in return, I'd like to ask you to read a book called "Myths and Facts". There's also an online version if you Google "Myths and Facts".
While I support people's rights to voice opinions, I do not believe that both sides should be considered equally, just as I do not believe that racist views should be considered equally (to refer back to my first post). When one group wants to wipe out a people on the basis of nationality/religion, that *is* racism, and is not ok. Still, discussion is good, as you said. I'm glad we can discuss this civilly here :)
Hamas' charter's call for the destruction of Israel is a fact recognized by even people who do not support Israel (I know, because I've argued with them about it, haha).
Here are some references, since you asked:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/international/middleeast/27mideast.html?ex=1298696400&en=25164615c0b5f11c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss ("The Hamas charter calls for Israel to be destroyed and replaced by an Islamic state")
http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b.htm (The charter itself, which in the opening paragraph says "Israel will rise and remain erect until Islam eliminates it", and on another page, "Peace initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions … are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement")
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3111238,00.html ("[Coexistence] can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in theend Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth")
While I can respect your opinion, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. While you admit that slavery, terrorism, and racism are something to be against, by the same logic then you should be against Israel. A careful analysis of the Isreal/Palestine situation would reveal the military-state that Israel has become (with large support from the U.S. and the colonial nature of it. Perhaps, Hamas’ calls for the extermination of Israel (where is the proof for this) is a product of Israel’s rampant policing and extermination of Palestinians (perhaps even a genocide). Why does the rise of an Islamic party in an Arab territory also always have to be equated with wiping Israel out? While I certainly don’t want to discredit that Isrealis died in Gaza, the death on the Palestinian side far outweighs the death on the Israeli side. 13 Israelis died (four of which were soldiers) compared to about 6,000 Palestinians as a total of those dead and injured. As far as arguing that Palestinian suicide bombers are terrorists, by the same token, isn’t Israel’s military causing Palestinians a whole lot of terror? I suggest you read “On Suicide Bombing” by Talal Asad, it will perhaps provide some insight onto occidentalist notions of the paradigm of terrorism, essentially revealing that “terrorists” can never reach the killing capability of modern states such as Isreal. While I believe peace is possible and there are both Israelis and Palestinians who want to work together, credit must be given where credit is due, and the world must recognize that Israel’s unproportional killing of Palestinians is just wrong. While the vigil is going to be as a-political as it can be, I believe more dialogue should occur at Wesleyan, and that both sides should be taken into account since in my opinion the pro-palestinian voice on campus is especially low.
While I can respect your opinion, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. While you admit that slavery, terrorism, and racism are something to be against, by the same logic then you should be against Israel. A careful analysis of the Isreal/Palestine situation would reveal the military-state that Israel has become (with large support from the U.S. and the colonial nature of it. Perhaps, Hamas’ calls for the extermination of Israel (where is the proof for this) is a product of Israel’s rampant policing and extermination of Palestinians (perhaps even a genocide). Why does the rise of an Islamic party in an Arab territory also always have to be equated with wiping Israel out? While I certainly don’t want to discredit that Isrealis died in Gaza, the death on the Palestinian side far outweighs the death on the Israeli side. 13 Israelis died (four of which were soldiers) compared to about 6,000 Palestinians as a total of those dead and injured.
As far as arguing that Palestinian suicide bombers are terrorists, by the same token, isn’t Israel’s military causing Palestinians a whole lot of terror? I suggest you read “On Suicide Bombing” by Talal Asad, it will perhaps provide some insight onto occidentalist notions of the paradigm of terrorism, essentially revealing that “terrorists” can never reach the killing capability of modern states such as Isreal. While I believe peace is possible and there are both Israelis and Palestinians who want to work together, credit must be given where credit is due, and the world must recognize that Israel’s unproportional killing of Palestinians is just wrong. While the vigil is going to be as a-political as it can be, I believe more dialogue should occur at Wesleyan, and that both sides should be taken into account since in my opinion the pro-palestinian voice on campus is especially low.
The first comment *was* ignorant, but I have to disagree with 8:42 and point out that not all one-sided views are incorrect or ignorant. Slavery, terrorism, racism — these are things that are 100% wrong, and you wouldn’t call someone opposing these things “one-sided”.Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of Israel and extermination of all Israelis. That sounds pretty analogously 100% wrong to me.However, this particular event is to commemorate the innocent individuals who have lost lives and families which have been destroyed, and I support doing that as long as it doesn’t turn into some anti-Israel political rally.
The first comment *was* ignorant, but I have to disagree with 8:42 and point out that not all one-sided views are incorrect or ignorant. Slavery, terrorism, racism — these are things that are 100% wrong, and you wouldn’t call someone opposing these things “one-sided”.
Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of Israel and extermination of all Israelis. That sounds pretty analogously 100% wrong to me.
However, this particular event is to commemorate the innocent individuals who have lost lives and families which have been destroyed, and I support doing that as long as it doesn’t turn into some anti-Israel political rally.
The first comment goes to show how one-sided and ignorant some wesleyan students are. This post is advertising a vigil for the thousands killed in gaza and its depressing to see that the first commenter falls into bigotry to advertise their one-sided view for israel.
The first comment goes to show how one-sided and ignorant some wesleyan students are. This post is advertising a vigil for the thousands killed in gaza and its depressing to see that the first commenter falls into bigotry to advertise their one-sided view for israel.
Interesting article: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43135Comments?
Interesting article:
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43135
Comments?
wow, the ignorance is appalling. way to conflate islam and palestinians.
wow, the ignorance is appalling. way to conflate islam and palestinians.
Fatwah against 12:31 insulting Islam!
Fatwah against 12:31 insulting Islam!
12:31, you’re a bigot and an idiot.I can’t make it, but will be there in spirit.
12:31, you’re a bigot and an idiot.
I can’t make it, but will be there in spirit.
Someone should organize a campaign for birth control awareness in Palestine. With 50% of Palestinians under 15 years of age, its obvious that most of these ignorant inbreeders dont know how to do anything except fuck like bunnies.
Someone should organize a campaign for birth control awareness in Palestine. With 50% of Palestinians under 15 years of age, its obvious that most of these ignorant inbreeders dont know how to do anything except fuck like bunnies.